Days numbered for birth-certificate border hops.

[jeffreyab]

By PAUL KORING

Wednesday, April 6, 2005 Updated at 1:42 AM EST

From Wednesday's Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050406.wborder06/BNStory/National/

"Finally, on Jan 1, 2008, the passport or equivalent rule will be imposed at land crossings."

You might have to join the website to read the rest of the article but the basics are that I and anyone else who crosses the border on a regular basis will have to apply for a passport. From the Passport Canada website:

"A fee of $87 is required with your initial application for a Canadian passport. How long is a passport valid for? The period of a passport's validity will vary depending on the age of the passport holder: Adult passport (sixteen years old and over): Maximum of 5 years. Can a passport be renewed? No, you must re-apply by providing a completed application form signed by an eligible guarantor."

Which means people who do not attend church or know any other professional are going to have a hard time.
This is really going to hurt border cities I can see the bigger bars in town including the charity casino getting hit hard.

Comments

[tlatoani.livejournal.com]

Um, can't they just ask someone they know from work, or a family member?

[hannunvaakuna.livejournal.com]

what does church attendance and/or knowing a professional have to do with getting a Canadian passport?

[harmer.livejournal.com]

I never even thought of our casino when Jeff and I were talking about this last night. I was just like, "Ha ha, Best Buy and the mall in Lethbridge/Port Huron are going to lose business!"

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

Applications and pictures must be signed by a guarantor. The list of acceptable guarantors is limited to various "professions"... mostly persons who are bondable, or assumed (ahem) to be reliable by virture of their calling.

Church attendance usually = cleric who at least knows your name on the register.

However, doctors, lawyers chiropractors, and (ta-da) engineers are on the list. It is not necessary that this person be a friend, just that they have known you for at least 2 years. More info at www.ppt.gc.ca/passports/get_guarantors_e.asp.

The list is shorter for Cdns living in the US, and shorter again for Cdns living outside Canada & the US.

[encorecrazay.livejournal.com]

Big article in the Wall Street Journal about this today focusing on the US Passport requirements. A first time application can cost up to $US 100. Mine expires this November.

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

But if the date you've cited is correct, there is over 3 years before the absolute need for a passport comes into play. So find a guarantor and cultivate them!! All they need to be able to do is swear or affirm that they have known you personally (i.e. not over the internet) for two years. They don't have to be your friend. They don't even have to LIKE you.

If you check the webpage for Passport Canada, the list of guarantors is actually quite extensive, and I believe there is a facility (requires a separate document) for persons who STILL can't find gurantor. Your banker will do, a vet will do (hey, I just realized I know a vet in the US!!).

I mean, if you haven't got a lawyer, doctor, dentist, vetrinarian, or financial officer in your circle of personal contacts or list of service providers, then the chances are you are ill-prepared for some other life issues.

[very-lost-boy.livejournal.com]

January 1st, 2008 is a long way off... I wouldn't want to be waiting for this to actually happen. At the very least, by then, advertising executives should also be on the list of acceptable persons.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Only if they are from a short list of professionals.

The professional has to know you I am pretty sure family doctors do not count.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Do they give a definition of know?

My dentist may be able to pick me out of a lineup but my doctor draws a blank if I run into him on the street.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

My banker is not a professional although she might be bonded.

I was not really thinking of me since one of my friends is an engineer.

I was thinking of people who do not have such people in their lives.

The kind of people who use the bars and the casino especially.

Given the back log I want to apply early so I have it by January 2008.

If I want to fly out of Pearson I would have to get it earlier.

Taking the long view as any historian/boy scout/SF fan would.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Actually I am thinking of becoming a notary business could be good.

[theengineer.livejournal.com]

Some friends of mine who had moved to Edmonton had to Fed Ex a passport application to me a few weeks back, because there was literally no one in Edmonton who could sign it for them. I agree, this is going to be a problem.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

There are alot of little intereactions people forget like Baker College and SC4, the hospitals, all of which employ Canadians.

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

All it says is "know personally." By which I believe they mean "has seen you in physical form and has reason to believe that you are who you say you are."

I don't expect that your doctor should be able to recognize you on the street, but if you have been seeing him professionally for more than two years and bring a passport application to him at his office, possibly in the course of a regular appointment, then he does know you personally.

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

It does not really matter if your banker is a "profesional." Persons holding certain types of jobs in financial institutions are recognized as guarantors.

From the Passport Canada website page on Guarantors:
/begin excerpt
All applications must be signed by a guarantor. A guarantor is a person who can confirm your identity or that of your child.

Duties of a guarantor
Your guarantor must perform the following tasks free of charge:
1. Certify the information on the application form by completing and signing the "Declaration of Guarantor" section.
2. Write on the back of one of your or your child's photos, "I certify this to be a true likeness of (your or your child's name)" and sign.
3. If applicable, sign and date the photocopy of your supplementary documentation.

Eligible guarantors for Canadian residents
Your guarantor must:
1. Be a Canadian citizen residing in Canada and must be accessible to Passport Canada for verification.
2. Have known you personally for at least two years.
3. Be included in one of the following groups:
Chiropractor; Judge, magistrate; Lawyer (member of a provincial bar association), notary in Quebec; Mayor; Medical doctor or dentist; Minister of religion authorized under provincial law to perform marriages; Notary public; Optometrist; Person occupying a senior administrative position in a community college (includes CEGEP); Pharmacist; Police officer (municipal, provincial or RCMP); Postmaster; Principal of a primary or secondary school; Professional accountant (member of APA, CA, CGA, CMA, PA, RPA); Professional engineer (P.Eng., Eng. in Quebec); Senior administrator or teacher in a university; Veterinarian
*Retired guarantors are not eligible unless still registered in their professional association.*



Declaration in lieu of guarantor
If you have not known an eligible guarantor for at least two years, complete form PPT 132 "Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor" available from any Passport Canada office.

The "Statutory Declaration in Lieu of Guarantor" form must be sworn or declared before, and signed by, a person authorized by law to administer an oath or solemn affirmation.
/end excerpt

I think the system is set up to allow the majority of people to get a passport, even if they do not personally know an engineer.

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

But you can't charge for it, and you can only do it for people you've known for two years.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

How is it going to be a problem? There is a declaration etc. for people who don't know anyone. It's going to be a pita for some, but not an insurmountable problem for most people. I think the most common problem will be people waiting until the last minute, and then not getting their passport in time because everyone else waited until the last minute, too.

Not that I think the policy makes any sense, just that getting a passport shouldn't be an insurmountable problem.

And if you think this is bad, I faced the same requirements when they suddenly decided that the landed immigrant papers they had given me were no longer good enough, and I needed to have a snazzy new card (at my own expense, after I'd already forked over all the fees required to get the papers)--and I hadn't yet lived in the country for two years, so my doctor, dentist, vet, eye doctor etc. hadn't known me long enough. Fortunately I have a friend who's a lawyer who had known me long enough.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

By which I believe they mean "has seen you in physical form and has reason to believe that you are who you say you are."

Kim what makes you believe this?

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

In large part, because of the purpose of the guarantor. Also, based on the list of acceptable guarantors. The list includes persons with whom an individual is likely to have had some degree of routine interaction. Key word: routine.

The key reason I say "has seen you in physical form and has reason to believe that you are who you say you are" is because part of what the guarantor does is state that the picture you provide is a reasonable likeness of you.

But again, in the end it doesn't matter, because if you need a passport and can't get a guarantor, you can use the "in lieu of" process and form.

Of course, I don't work for Passport Canada, but the language on the website is pretty clear and the information pretty accesible. And I don't get the sense that it is obstructive at all.

Perhaps since Sarnia is a border city, it would be an idea to work out some kind of "we'll help you fill out your passport application" workshops at the library, kind of the way some places have tax workshops. You might even be able to get a grant for it...

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

Absolutely, the wait-to-the-last-minute part of this is going to be the big problem. And the people who forget the required first steps:
1. Check if you have valid proof of citizenship
1a. Get valid proof of citizenship before applying for passport...

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

Actually I stand corrected on the banker. I see the whole bank signing officer thing seems to have been streamlined out of the list of guarantors. Relatively recently from the looks of things.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

There was a sign in the (whatever they call the) office where I went to get a duplicate birth certificate that said something like,

"If you can't provide proof that you are who you say you are, don't expect us to."

[elizilla]

Poorer people who live chaotic lives are often fairly well acquainted with police officers, to the point where local cops will know their names and faces, even though they aren't doing anything criminal.

[kgkofmel.livejournal.com]

Yes. And I was turning over the whole "mayor" thing in my mind, and then I realized that, like the postmaster, if one lives in a small town, one likely knows the mayor and/or the postmaster. In some towns, one is likely *related* to the mayer and/or the postmaster.