The Theory and Practice of Relationships

[jeffreyab]

I am looking for people's thought on relationships. I have been thinking about relationships lately since I am at the point in my life where it is going to take a real effort to meet people with whom I at all compatible.

Are they necessary?

If you are in one what effect does it have on your life?
How did you meet the person?
What keeps the two of you together?
I was wondering how much commonality people have. Was it love at first sight or something that grew more slowly?

If you are not in one why not?
Have you been in one before or have you always been single?

Comments

Relationships give me that sinking feeling.

[big-beginings.livejournal.com]

I think relatinships may be necessary for the purpose of company and comfort. Although there is some anger and discomfort that come with this as well. I met my gf at my brother's b-day party. What keeps us together? Probably humour and patience. And hormones. I think that our relationship was (at least for me) love at first sight and something we had to work on slowly. I was very solitary and in way still am. It's hard living with someone. Most things we don't have in common...and it's strange how we get along so well sometimes. Mysteries of love will always be mysteries. Unless God comes over for coffee sometime.

Jeffrey

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

Yes yes! Patience and faith. How could I forget those! :-)

Re: Relationships give me that sinking feeling.

[cohen7.livejournal.com]

nicely put, brother

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

Well, since you asked... (smile)
Are relationships necessary? I guess that depends on the person and what you mean by relationships. I assume, in this case, you mean romantic/partnerships.

For me they are necessary. I am too much of a people person to live alone. I suppose in theory I might have found happiness in the right sort of group household but I dunno... I'm fond of sex too and sex with someone I adore is much preferable to just sex with someone I am attracted to and like. I've tried both.

I am married for the second time. It's the second time for both of us. When I married the first time I really didn't know "who I was" or "what I wanted in a relationship". 2 critical things to know if you are searching for a life partner I think. I met Ed at a filk convention in New England. (hmm - no, actually, I met him at a Boskone but he was married at the time so not on my radar other than "darn".)

I think what keeps us together is a very compatible worldview and personalities. We have many common passions, not least of which is performing a variety of music together. We are genuinely interested in even many of the ones that don't really overlap (for example - I am not "into" model trains but I like trains and really enjoy playing with his model trains sometimes and can have fun at a train show. Or - I'm not into pipe organs - or - well I wasn't before marrying Ed and.. yeah well you get what I'm saying.) I also think it is important that we have an equal "balance of power". He's introverted, I'm extroverted but both of enjoy people just in different ways - and we are both really strong personalities who are stubborn and opinionated. This is actually really good from my perspective. With Iain we ended up out of balance way too often because we had a sort of "alpha female" "beta male" situation which could work if the female is comfortable being like that but I crave a nice mixed up balance. I get that with Ed.

In our case it was a combination of "lust/attraction" at first sight combined with an obviously shared worldview (which we figured out by staying up all night talking). I know this sounds terribly sappy but it is true that both of us would say that we grow more in love with each year. So far it's been 7 years of marriage. We make each other completely crazy sometimes and neither of us is easy to live with, but I'll never be bored by him, I'll always know he adores me and is attracted to me, and I know we'll be there for each other through good times and bad.

FWIW - my mother, who is now in her 70s, was sure she would never find a partner after my father died. She went to the UU church and some clubs but ultimately found her current husband in a widows/widowers online dating board! So you'll meet someone. It can be hard waiting but I think you'll meet someone, really - you're intelligent and kind and fun - someone will see the wonderful you.

Good luck.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Sadly statistically your mother's chances were better than mine since if you are not married by 40 your chances of doing so drop like a stone.

Looking around at my dating pool I can see why.

The single moms and never marrieds are not really looking for someone as different as me.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

The single moms and never marrieds are not really looking for someone as different as me. Why on earth would that be? I'd think especially if you actually like kids enough to consider taking on someone else's single moms would be happy to at least put you in the dating pool. Being a step parent is hard but can be rewarding. (says the mom who raised 3 step daughters). Have you read "About a Boy" it's a hoot. Haven't seen the movie though I'm told it was pretty good but the book was really fun and applicable though I wouldn't go to that extreme. :-)

It's not like you have 3 heads or something. I admit I don't know you well since we really only met socially at cons or parties but you always seemed pleasant enough to me - I mean you're not even one of those "unwashed really socially inept geeky fans".

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Because I am 44 never been married or do not have kids they tend to look at me like I have three heads. Such a status is unusual for Sarnia, that and not having enough money or emotional steadiness to compensate.

Or they are so needy and battle scared that they scare me off.

I mean there is no rule that I have to date someone I do not find attractive at all?

Working from a series of blind dates does not help.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

I mean there is no rule that I have to date someone I do not find attractive at all? Nope. And I'd recommend against it. Attraction is part of the package, at least now-a-days it is. I guess there were marriages that were "good" and lasted that were arranged in days past, and probably some still today in certain cultures but I would guess that truly emotionally satisfying marriages like that are few and far between and that those which work have an element of attraction that is luck.

Here's a wacky thought and probably a therapist is a much better person to ask about this issue than me but... have you thought about moving? I mean finding a job in a more cosmopolitan city where the pool of like-minded women will be larger and you'll be less of a "weirdo"? Seriously, it sounds like a relationship is something really important to you and if so, maybe it is worth upturning your life to try to achieve it? I didn't want to leave Ann Arbor much but I'm glad I followed Ed (since him moving to A2 was not an option at the time).

Anyway I do hope you find what you are looking for. It looked like in a past comment you mentioned that you are in a relationship? Is it very tenative or does it have complications like distance?

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Given my age and career moving now would be very hard.

Full time librarian jobs are hard to get.

I have a few friendships with women but no relationships.

I usually stumble over the mutual attraction thing, I like them they don't like me, they like me but I do not like them.

The age old story.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

Given my age and career moving now would be very hard.

Full time librarian jobs are hard to get.

It sounds like you have a choice to make: You have to decide whether the upheaval of uprooting yourself and moving to a place where it would be "very hard" to find a job in your field would be worth living in a place with like-minded women who would consider you a good catch instead of weird.

I was faced with exactly that choice, and I moved. The job part was hell: NOTHING in my field (it didn't help that my field was IT and the year was 2002), and a bias against anyone without Canadian experience. I went back to school and changed fields, then back into the job market with NO experience. It was hell, but I could've moved back and gotten a job (but been alone), and I didn't.

It's a hard choice, and you have to choose what's best for you.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Marah correct me if I am wrong but you met your partner and then moved right?

I think for guys its a bigger choice since society frowns upon males that do not keep up their end of things economically.

I also stick around Sarnia for family reasons too.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

Marah correct me if I am wrong but you met your partner and then moved right?

That's true, I didn't move permanently until after I'd met him; but I met him in Toronto because I was already spending every weekend/day off there. The travel was exhausting, but I had a social life, and I met my husband through mutual friends in Toronto. Even if I hadn't met him, it would have been worth it to me to have a social life with like-minded people.

I wouldn't suggest that you pick up and move to Toronto or Ann Arbor, but coming in more often for events that interest you would at least be fun.

I think for guys its a bigger choice since society frowns upon males that do not keep up their end of things economically.

There's some truth to that, but these days, single women who can't support themselves aren't exactly looked up to either, and married women who aren't contributing financially are usually raising children (or live with someone who can afford to support them).

I also stick around Sarnia for family reasons too.

That's why it's a hard choice, and one that no one else can make for you. But if you say that you can't find anyone compatible in Sarnia, but that you want to stay there, there aren't too many other alternatives.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I used to go to Michigan for the same reasons you went to Toronto but it has not yet panned out for me or rather it did but did not work out in the long run.

Now I just do not enjoy the commute and feel there is a lack of dating opportunities in Michigan.

Everyone is pretty much paired up and when they break up I cannot be there enough to date before they monogamy up again.

Actually Stilyagi as a group has gotten much more Ann Arbor centric and does not offer as much to an out of towner.

[marahsk.livejournal.com]

I used to go to Michigan for the same reasons you went to Toronto but it has not yet panned out for me or rather it did but did not work out in the long run.

Fair enough. You gave it a shot.

Now I just do not enjoy the commute and feel there is a lack of dating opportunities in Michigan.

Well, of course you don't enjoy the commute! The commute SUCKS! Whoever said that getting there is half the fun never had a long distance relationship. Come to think of it, he probably never traveled by plane or car, either.

It still occurs to me in odd moments (on Sunday evenings) how glad I am that I don't have that 2-hour drive ahead of me.

[folkmew.livejournal.com]

I should probably shut up and let people who know you better comment and/or a therapist who is trained in this sort of thing but...

Given my age and career moving now would be very hard.
Full time librarian jobs are hard to get.

True, and I'm not trying to make light of it, but seriously, people do find jobs in other areas, people do move mid career, it's something you could look into if you thought it might increase your chances of finding a solid relationship enough. It's a gamble but then much of life is. Also, I don't really know how high a priority a lifepartner type relationship is for you, it was sounding to me like it might genuinely be more important to you than your career. If that is the case you can see why I said moving, even if it meant somehow taking a detour in your career, might be worth considering. Then again, if you love your job it might not be worth it, I was just trying to throw out some possibilities you might not have considered.

I have a few friendships with women but no relationships.
I usually stumble over the mutual attraction thing, I like them they don't like me, they like me but I do not like them.

Or you are looking at the "wrong sort" of women - by which I only mean women who don't actually have enough in common with you. I had a friend who always seemed attracted to these "model" looking women who tended usually to be really mundane and not an intellectual match for him at all. But that could be totally not the case with you!

Or - you are spectacularly bad at reading signals and you only think they do not like you?? I have seen this happen with guys, especially fannish guys. If you have close friendships with women grill them about it - see if you are good at "reading womanspeak". :-)

Ok - well - I'll shut up now and let those who know you better be of help. I just hate to see you so defeatest about something it seems you care about so much. :-( I can't help it, I've pretty much run my adult life by this quote of Goethe and, for me anyway, so far it has worked pretty much everytime I really commit to something:

Until one is committed there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative and creation, there is one elemental truth, the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: That the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too... All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred a whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man or woman could have dreamt would have come his or her way. Whatever you can do, or dream you can begin it. Boldness has genius power and magic in it... Begin it now.” (Goethe)

Good luck!

[cohen7.livejournal.com]

relationships are necessary - whether they be platonic or otherwise. we all need human contact. as for effect - my gf challenges me and makes me laugh, not to mention offers comfort that most cannot. how did we meet? at school, it was a very gradual thing - not instantanious, more like pals that grew into something deeper (the best way a relationship can start i think). what keeps us together? her blindness towards my faults, most likely. and i've had other relationships - the one before erin, about 3 years i think. but i like to think my relationships just keep getting better.

[fallenhero143.livejournal.com]

Are they necessary? - Not for everyone, but for most I think.

If you are not in one why not? - I dont need one, and being fat, ugly, old, poor, and disabled my options are limiting enough that theres not much point in trying.

Have you been in one before or have you always been single? - Had a girlfriend for almost 2 years. Absolute disaster. Drove me nearly to suicide more than once. The right relationship would be great Im sure, but no relationship is better then any relationship.

[marcy-italiano.livejournal.com]

Are they necessary?

Assuming you mean relationships that are more than friends? Only you can answer that one. Are they necessary for *you* and not in general. There are a lot of people who choose not to pair up and they're happy. So the bottom line is, are you happy? You have to accept yourself, and be happy with yourself first and foremost.

If you are in one what effect does it have on your life?

I've now been married for over 9 years, and we've been together for 14 years altogether. There aren't enough hours in the day to answer that question. It's like asking how your mother has effected your life, it would take forever.

How did you meet the person?

I was 16, he was 17. We were working with Special Needs students who happened to be in the same class. To take breaks we worked as a team, and became friends. We had a few dates, and very quickly became best friends. We "hung out" for quite a while before muttering "I love you" because we were just having fun. We still are.

Sometimes I think about what my life would have been like without him. At this stage in my life, if I was single, I'd probably stay that way. But really, who's to say what would have happened, eh?

What keeps the two of you together?

Well, we're best friends - to start. When you have a fight with your best friend, chances are, you're going to figure things out. When you have a fight with "THE WIFE" or "THE HUSBAND" (insert "good enough person" here) you may not have the same trust, or resepct for each other. Lately, I've heard a few friends mutter, "Love my kids, hate my wife." Hell, I'd rather be alone then trapped. I'm not trapped, I still look forward to spending time with him, we make each other laugh. as an added bonus, I think he's fucking sexy. LOL!

I was wondering how much commonality people have. Was it love at first sight or something that grew more slowly?

Slowly, definitely. But I believe in love at first sight. It makes everyone around you nervous, but I've seen it happen.

We're both pretty laid back. We disagree quite a lot, we're not twins. Being with someone just like you would either be boring, or in my case, scary. We have similar interests, but different hobbies. (We both love football, he writes music, I write fiction.)

Look, Jeff. This is the way I see it. You don't have to follow the rules. The rules being you have to get a career, get married, have kids, retire, and sit in a rocking chair. Some people like the rules, suits them fine. That marriage thing? Worked for me. Carreer? Nah. Kids? Nah. Retire? Yes, please. Rocking chair? Nah. I get a lot of grief over my choices, MANY people would like to know what's wrong with me. My mother-in-law alone, forget the rest of the Italiano family, has given me grief over the kid thing. Screw 'em. I'm happy. I happen to be with someone who makes me happy.

I also know some people who are unhappy just because they're not following the rules, and assume something is wrong with them. To that I say, bullshit! Events in people's lives bring them to where they are, and events will continue to take them places. Sometimes, you can control them.

Some people get themselves into a relationship just to follow the rules, and end up trapped, but happy about it. Hell, if that's their thing, I think it's screwed up, but who am I to say.

Relax about it, and have fun in your life. If someone comes along to have fun with you that's great. If not, remember that life is too short. Enjoy life, try not to analyze it - before too long you'll end up in a cyclical pattern that gets your conversation nowhere because you're still thinking about just one aspect.

[whynotsteve.livejournal.com]

Are they necessary?

For me, absolutely. Not to say that I would automatically be unhappy if I were single, but romantic relationships are a very big part of my life and there would be a big hole there otherwise.

If you are in one what effect does it have on your life?

My relationships provide me with love, sex, friendship, companionship, support, comfort, all kinds of stuff. Now you can get most of those things in other ways too. It depends on what your individual needs are.

How did you meet the person?

My primary partner I met at law school. My newer relationship is with someone I met at your room party at Ad Astra this year (have I thanked you yet? *g*).

What keeps the two of you together?

Well, C. & I have been together for over 7 years and are more in love with each other than ever. And more attracted to each other than ever too. She is my best friend. We each want each other to be happy and think that we can be a big part of that. I think being good friends is really important to the success of a romantic relationship.

I was wondering how much commonality people have. Was it love at first sight or something that grew more slowly?

C. & I knew each other for a few years before getting together. Our friendship developed first and then evolved into something deeper. Though I still remember the first time I met her, so clearly there was something there right away. I felt the same way with K., but once again we were friends first. I don't really believe in love at first sight. Lust, for sure, but love takes time to develop. How can you love someone you don't even know?

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

My newer relationship is with someone I met at your room party at Ad Astra this year (have I thanked you yet? *g*).

That would be a "no." ;)

[whynotsteve.livejournal.com]

This is my official thanks then. *g*

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

You are welcome!