When is conscription not conscription? When its called "Stop Loss etc."

[jeffreyab]

An observation of the American armed forces:

Stop Loss and recall of Inactive Reserves seem to be being used as a form of back door draft. Soldiers out of the Army and inactive for years are being called back. Officers are particularly vulnerable to this if they never resigned their commissions properly.

It seems that the Army is trying to haul back anyone they could conceivably get their hands on. I think the extreme example on 60 minutes was the 55 year old CWO who is 4'8" and has not seen active service since the 1960's and the chopper pilot with the bum leg. They both reported when called though.

Comments

[deviantsaint.livejournal.com]

She's a reserve chief...
she's still in the system, just like I am.
Being in the reserves rather than active duty does NOT mean you're out. You're no where near out.

now, the other cases are kinda strange. Though I don't think that they'll keep the chopper pilot when they realize he's medically non-deployable.

-DS

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Well actually she made some sense they as she was willing to go and had no dependents. They did not mention her MOS though.

The thing that bothers me is that there seems to be a bias in sending reserves before all regulars have rotated through. Is this likely to be an MOS mismatch?

I think the extreme case was Air Force airbase security units. Reservists were doing long hauls overseas while regulars were sitting safe in the US.

[deviantsaint.livejournal.com]

Speaking as a reservist...

There is a cap on the amount of time that the reserves can be used. Under the current partial mobilization it is two years out of five that they can be deployed.

For units that break that two year period up in two one year chunks there is a minimum of a year stabilization between them (however, you can waive that by signing a letter saying you want to be deployed sooner... which I did sign.)

the time on active duty includes time in active duty training, not just time spent deployed. So if a reserve unit gets called up and spends three months doing additional training at a base in the states, that's still considered part of that two year cap.

the reason we are seeing more reservists called to active duty (which is not hte same as bieing assigned to an active duty unit) is because of that two year cap. Since you can't bring back the same people, you have to rotate through the ones you have, and find a way to get more.

the IRR exists SOLELY for this reason. It is IN the contract you sign when you join the military.

anyway, in actuality the active duty guys (at least as far as the army goes) are doing longer hitches than the reserves (and more often). But... that's sort of the reason you have an active duty military, they CAN be deployed in combat operations the duration of their enlistment. THey can also be stop lossed during a time of war (which was mandated by congress). I've been on stop loss since September of 01 due to my particular MOS. I don't even know if I'm off of stop loss yet.

*shrugs*

-DS

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I think alot of people thought that IRR only lasted four years and now they are being surprised with callups well after that period has passed.

That and officers that did not realize they had to formally resign their commission to be out of the forces.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Reserves of any status are fair game. And if you read the enlistment contract, the Army can involuntarily extend you out after the enlistment period in case of war. It's in the "Partial Statement of Existing United States Laws" on the second page of the form. Note also that this statement is specifically Partial.

Also, a call to report for active duty does not mean a soldier will actually be on AD status for more than 30 days. If the soldier is non-deployable, he or she will likely be inactivated quickly.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

Non-deployable is open to individual interpretation.

I can see some gung ho officer deploying people and units not ready because they need to fill a hole.

I am also disconcerted by the sending reserves before all regulars have served imbalance.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Nondeployable is not open to individual interpretation. It is clearly defined in regulation.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

I can think of one exception.

The 507th Maintenance Battlion deployed Spec Lori Pietswa even though she was injured.

Lori went on to be the first Native American woman killed in action.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

She was not deployed injured. She may have been kept rolling with the unit, but I guarantee she did not leave the US in bad shape.

[jeffreyab.livejournal.com]

She was recovering from a noncombat injury at the time of deployment and could have opted out based on the fact she had not healed completely.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Well, that's different. No one in their right mind opts out of a deployment if given the choice. Sometimes you havn't got a choice--we had an E5 break his leg less than a month before we deployed. He didn't join us for six months.

[scottij.livejournal.com]

"And if you read the enlistment contract, the Army can involuntarily extend you out after the enlistment period in case of war."

It sounds like there is some debate about whether that part of the contract is really fair or enforceable:

Suit seeks to limit stints of 8 U.S. soldiers

I haven't seen the contract myself, so I won't comment directly -- perhaps the contract is quite clear and these lawsuits are not reasonable.

However, I am also disturbed by reports such as:

All volunteer?
Troops feeling strain

which reports that even soldiers who have already been honorably discharged and even fulfilled their 8-year obligation are being sent new orders for deployment.

[dekarch.livejournal.com]

Sounds like people are suing over nothing. It will be thrown out of court. Just because some idiot with more money than brains will hire a lawyer does not mean the legal basis of the regulations are seriously in question.

[rmeidaking.livejournal.com]

The thing I'm most surprised about is the people who are surprised.

Item: The war didn't go the way the [way too optimistic] DoD thought it would. That is, the Iraqis are resisting the US troops a la the French in WW2 when the Germans invaded, rather than welcoming the US troops a la the French in WW2 when the Allies arrived.

Item: There are approximately 900 more casualties [so far] than even the most pessimistic pre-war assessments had.

Item: The economy is improving; the average 20 yo *can* find a job.

Item: The military is getting really bad press at the moment. Would *you* want to go play over there?

Between all of these factors (and more), the DoD finds itself A) needing more people; and B) faced with recruitment levels that are approaching historic lows. Combine this with a military that was sort of in the habit of refusing about 1/3 of applicants for one reason or another (picking people who could actually read, speak English, get through high school), and they're finding themselves in a bind.

A collateral truth that the government isn't mentioning much is that a lot of the civilian contractors that the DoD planned on to assist have pulled out entirely. Sorry, you can't pay us enough....

This is why there was so much talk about whether or not Candidate A or Candidate B would reinstate the draft. Anyone with a brain can figure out that within a very few years, they're going to run out of people who are truly willing to be fighting in Iraq.

Fortunately, #1Son has ADHD and will be DQ'd outright; #2Son has a lot of years before he's 18, and is sufficiently red/green colorblind to get out of all but desk duty. (Think about it; do you want a guy who thinks red and green are shades of the same color deciding which camoflaged target to shoot?)

As to why the regular Air Force is doing duty in Germany and the US, and the reserves are on the ground in Iraq, I think the answer is pretty obvious: They aren't fighting an air war. The USAF has bombers and fighters; there are very few bombing targets these days (the insurgents have figured out that they need to stay intermingled with the rest of the population) and the Iraqi Air Force has been toast for months. So the Elite Troops are at home, defending the Homeland, and the Cannon Fodder is in Iraq. I can't say I'd argue with this deployment pattern either.

Bottom line: This is going to make VietNam look like a picnic. We'll have troops in Iraq until the Chinese kick us out.